Monday, September 7, 2009

Why is AFP Promoting Secession?

How seriously can someone take an organization that gives voice to the ridiculous idea that Wisconsin should secede from the Union?

This is such a lunatic fringe concept that it has no place in serious public discussion, yet AFP, which has been trying to position itself as the state's premier conservative supper club, did just that when it invited Dr. Phil Zimmermann to speak at its Sheboygan Tea Party this weekend. Zimmermann apparently runs a website, that advocates Wisconsin leaving the Union, an absolutely absurd concept that is made even more so by the site's nutjob six part "argument" for secession.

The reasoning deployed by the organization is downright offensive:
Others may feel that it is "un-American" to withdraw from the union and that it does not honor those who have given their lives in service to our country. If one is to equate "America" with a federal government, it is understandable why one would feel this way. [...]

Our founders understood this. Though they considered themselves "British," their loyalties were to the principles for which they believed Britain should have stood, not to the British government itself.
Got that? It wasn't the Civil War that proved once and for all that Secession was not part of the deal, rather it was the Revolutionary War that demonstrated that anyone can pack up and leave any time they want.
We feel that the circumstances are such that a peaceful dissolution of the union should be seriously considered to preserve a free and healthy society... Secession is one of the most sophisticated and elegant principles of an advanced democratic form of government. It embodies the very heart of a free society by providing for the people’s right of self-determination.
Emphasis in the original.

This is sheer lunacy. Most organizations would be embarrassed to have this guy show up to their event. AFP gives him a microphone and a speaking slot. Why not just let a Birther do the keynote next Tea Party?


Anonymous said...

Let's see if I've got your point:

You say it's a "lunatic fringe concept."

You call the idea "lunacy."

You apparently have this great argument that the Civil War decided the issue. Might makes right I guess.

Is that all you can say to justify your position? I can only assume you are opposed to the Declaration of Independence - but you don't explain why they were wrong in 1776 - just that it must have been "lunacy."

You also don't mention the secession of 1788 when nine States seceded from our first constitution - the Articles of Confederation. Oh- it must have also been "lunacy."

You are so smart and offer such compelling logic for your claim of lunacy. If only those stupid Founders could have wised up and let King George have his way - just submit to the master ruler as you would have us do today.

I only have one suggestion for you - spend a little time studying our history. Oops sorry - our loony history.

Jb said...

I have no interest in engaging anyone who thinks that Wisconsin should secede from the Union.

The economic, cultural, and defense arguments brought up by are ridiculous and have no place in public discussion. You're interpretation of history is a joke wrapped in a pseudo-intellectual packaging to provide the veneer of legitimacy.

I will not be sucked into offering "compelling logic for [my] claim of lunacy." The burden of proof is entirely on you

You people are the crazy cat ladies of Wisconsin politics: I don't need to have a discussion with you to realize that you're insane -- the smell of cat piss on your clothes is all the evidence I need to determine that.

Old Rebel said...

Wrong -- you made the assertion that secession is ridiculous, so the least you can do is to try to back it up.

C'mon -- just try.

Jb said...

I did say why, here: the arguments put forth by are nothing more that the paranoid ravings of a lunatic conspiracy theorist who has combined his obessions under the umbrella of "secession."

As for you. Old Rebel, I'm terribly sorry the "War of Northern Aggression" was an inconvenience to your antiquated tradition of human bondage, but that was almost 150 years ago. Kindly get over yourself.

This is the last we will say on the matter.

Secessionist said...

"JB" must stand for "Just Bull," because that's the only thing you seem to be capable of handing out. You step into this forum, and have the temerity to label everyone who doesn't agree with your myopic and feeble view of politics and history as lunatics and then take the cowards way out by simply stating NO DEBATE! I declare! "JB" must not stand for "Just Bull" after all; it must really stand for "Jelly Balls!" Come on coward, if you are really so sure of your pitifully rediculous position and are the great legal scholar and Constitutional expert you must undoubtedly be to disparage so many, then show us your mettle... and DEBATE!

Anonymous said...

What concrete benefits would secession provide to the people of Wisconsin that they cannot gain through their relationship with the Federal Government? Are there any drawbacks to secession that you are aware of? What do you believe the reaction of the Federal Government would be?

Unknown said...

JB: Your post,in addition to being disgusting in its ugliness and abusivenes, is also literally a dangerous threat. Any "person" who engages in this kind of ugly, irrational abusiveness is a potential murderer - a mass murderer, b/c of not only their literally insane irrationality, but esp. b/c of the impassioned hate-filled emotionalism that is so obvious in "speech" such as this. You are the perfect Liberal. ALL restrictive laws - gun control, hate crimes, HATE SPEECH (obviously!) - apply to EVERYONE ELSE - NOT TO THE LIKES OF YOU.
We actually should be very happy and pleased for this kind of vitriolic and utterly irrational HATE SPEECH, for it shows with absolute perfection WHAT "people" like you really are and what you actually believe.
And the title of your post, "Why is AFP Promoting Secession?" shows perfectly the "Liberal" mindset at work. They aren't "promoting secesion" just b/c someone in favor of it speaks to them, with them. It's called "freedom of thought, freedom of speech and freedom of association" - NONE of which you truly believe in, except for the likes of you and other Liberal "fellow believers."
Thank you, JB - you are truly the perfect "Useful Idiot" - and the rest of us will make good use of your "excellent" contribution. SR

Old Rebel said...
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Old Rebel said...


Hold on, JB. Aiming a few verbal spitwads at someone because you don't like their views on gm food and the Fed does not make a logical case against the right of self-determination. Can you say "non-sequitur"? Right. Didn't think so.

And surely my comments deserve more than your parroting the official, politically correct line that slavery in the South justified crushing self-government, and centralizing power in DC.

Try again.

Unknown said...
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Unknown said...

I'm guessing that it might be worth mentioning that slavery was operative in the North as well. Also that Deleware was the last state to ratify the 13th amendment and slavery was legal in Washington D.C. at the time.